Chinese Officer Offers Uyghur A Way Out
Mirkamil Turghun: "Tell my family to forget about having a child like me..."
Audio recording provided by Mirkamil Turghun with his conversation with an Uyghur officer
Below is the transcript of the audio recording provided by Mirkamil Turghun. It has been translated by Kashgar Times from Uyghur into English:
Officer: Like I said before, we are both men, there is nothing to worry about between us, nothing [bad] will happen, if we meet…Mirkamil: I am not afraid of anything, there’s something I don’t quite understand. We don’t really know each other. You’re not really someone I know, there are others I know who I had studied with in the same year at school, that work in your department. If you had called through them I would understand, but I don’t understand why someone I don’t know would want to do right by me.
Officer: Firstly, to be frank, I first want to get to know you, I have always known you because you play music, so I have a certain rapport towards you. So when your name came up I started to reminisce about the old days of playing music at the 17th (High) school and I have seen you when we used to study. I used to know you even though we never broke bread together. Second, for a while now with Dilnur [Reyhan] (Uyghur Advocate) and others, you tried to do things [Uyghur advocacy], I would think by now you understand and have gotten to the bottom of things, this won’t amount to anything in the end. You are getting up there in age, according to me, I don’t know whether I am right or wrong, but I see you guys as a pawn [chess piece] in a political game, people will use you for their own benefit and when they’re done with you they will drop you. If it was anybody else I probably wouldn’t give a damn to tell you the truth.
Mirkamil: You don’t need to be concerned about that, that’s how we learn in life, whether we are pawns or not, we can come to that conclusion. Whether I can create a change or a result is something I have not done. Hold on, someone is calling me.
Officer: ok, ok…
Mirkamil: Wait a moment, let me end this [other] call. What was I saying? We are merely living our lives, telling the truth about what’s happening to us, we are not putting on a show, we are not necessarily trying to change anything, we are just saying what is happening.
Officer: If you ask me, what I think is, you’ve seen it all right, you’ve experienced everything once over [in terms of Uyghur advocacy efforts].
Mirkamil: No, I still have lots to see.
Officer: No, I think you are quite experienced.
Mirkamil: No, I can bear quite a lot, even though I am small [in stature].
Officer: What I am trying to say is, at the end these things [Uyghur advocacy] won’t amount to anything. Now, I can understand others, whether because of their family members [being disappeared into concentration camps or prisons], they joined this way [Uyghur advocacy efforts]. Your family is such a good family, from your parents and everyone, you are a large family, in my mind, if others join I understand. I would say to myself: “How come Mirkamil joined this path [Uyghur advocacy]” and couldn’t understand it. Now today it’s good that…
Mirkamil: What do you mean, what path have I joined? Can you explain what path I have joined?
Officer: What I mean is, going against our country [China], taking part in [Uyghur advocacy] events.
Mirkamil: Are you saying I should close my eyes to what’s happening?
Officer: No, I am not saying you should close your eyes to what’s happening. See, some things are not like you have heard, you have not seen with your own eyes. You can’t just base your ideas on what’s being published by Eastern or Western countries. We have gone past the age of getting excited and taking to the streets, isn’t that right?
Mirkamil: Keep going, I’m listening.
Officer: I have no other intention, I wanted to converse and see how you are and see how you view these things [Uyghur advocacy] and see whether or not we can be friends.
Mirkamil: What do you mean by “friends”?
Officer: I wanted to converse with you, even though your family can’t contact you, I wanted to play a bridging role to try and connect you…
Mirkamil: People have misunderstood me, I have not been looking for anyone to play a bridging role, so good-intention individuals inform me of things, even though I never requested such information. If you are able to get information to my family, tell them there is no hostility between us, I have no choice, there is no other price I can pay besides cut ties with my family. As far as I can see you seem to know me quite well, between 2018-2023, I lived like just as you described, lived with my head down, minding my own business. I was accused of things I did not do. As you said, I am getting older, I have had enough of living like that, I want to live like a human in a free country. I want to live with my head held high. Truth has a way of coming to light, even when obscured or suppressed.
Officer: What do you mean by Truth has a way of coming to light, even when obscured or suppressed? Things are not as bad as you think them out to be.
Mirkamil: This is not something I have just thought up, not something that I have made up, you had mentioned before it’s a Western thing [propaganda] etc. I have spoken to the women who have been there [concentration camps], and have heard what happens.
Officer: Oh you mean Gulbahar [Jalilova] [former concentration camp detainee, now residing in France], she’s all talk, we know everything about that woman. If she doesn’t make up a scenario and talk, the money will stop. You have seen what it’s like over the past few years and you understand even if I don’t say it plainly. So if she doesn’t go on stage and become an actress, where would her money come from, how can she take care of herself?
Mirkamil: She is not an actress, she is a business woman.
Officer: You’re right, she is a business woman, a political business woman, taking money from the highest bidders. If the World Uyghur Congress doesn’t give money she curses them, if they pay her, she praises them.
Mirkamil: I understand where this conversation is going.
Officer: Don’t misunderstand me, we are having a good conversation.
Mirkamil: How can I understand, actually, I don’t understand you. This is not about right or wrong. I am trying to understand how this benefits you.
Officer: There is no benefit to me. I’m trying to converse with you and stay connected, I don’t have many friends there, so that I could say I have a friend in France, that’s all. I am not trying to get you to do anything for me. If there is something that I need to know, I don’t necessarily have to find out through you, right?
Mirkamil: I do not intend to report to you.
Officer: Don’t misunderstand me, I am not asking you to report to me. Even though we weren’t friends before, I want to be able to converse like friends. If there are things that you don’t understand I could help try and explain.
Mirkamil: I cannot contact [my family] like you said before, this is not realistic. What are we going to talk about, you don’t know anything about the West, even though I was born there I don’t know what it’s like there now, even though I had lived there for 20 years. So, I don’t understand, I don’t understand your intention and I don’t know where this conversation is going. I don’t think I can. What is my role, what is your role? Nothing is clear.
Officer: For example, what do you think I can do for you?
Mirkamil: What I think you can do for me?
Officer: Yes. What I am trying to say is, if I have a role to play. If you can benefit from me in any way, what do you think I can do for you?
Mirkamil: Tell my family to forget about having a child like me, tell them I have become used to it. The time for feeling sorry for myself, the time for crying is over.
Officer: What I am thinking is, Mirkamil, sorry for interrupting. We only live once, right?
Mirkamil: Right.
Officer: Your parents are getting up there is age, your father is in his 80’s. What I’m thinking is, I am a man, I also have parents, a family. What I think is, because life only comes once, people should be able to be with and see their loved ones while they are alive for the last time. I am not sure why you are speaking to me in this manner, perhaps because you don’t know me that well. This is my opinion, just telling you how I feel. I’m thinking if you hug your parents tightly, for now they are alive, may their lives be long, if they end up leaving [dying] in the near future. We will also age, we will soon be 50, 60, when we are their age we don’t want to look back with regret, I would think we would think this way. Besides our parents, what else do we have?
Mirkamil: I have already thought about these things. Even if you don’t tell me I have thought about these things before. I am also a human, of course words like this would come out of one’s mouth, these are basic things. These things have already been taken away from us. I have come to terms with this. What you’re saying doesn’t work on someone who has cut ties [with one’s family].
Officer: So I am wondering why you’re being like this, I can’t seem to understand why you would cut ties with your family, what makes you do this?
Mirkamil: I did not cut ties from my family.
Officer: Not contacting them, a human, would want to hear their mother’s father’s voice…
Mirkamil: You are speaking like some sort of saviour, pressuring my family because you cannot take it out on me.
Officer: I have not met your family. To go there and say to them, “you have a son, etc.” That’s not what I do, that’s not my style. Because I am also a man [a son], because I also student at the 14th [High school], I thought because we are both guys, I thought we’d have a heart to heart conversation about this. Thinking “let me hear what he has to say” is why I called you. If others have gone [to visit your parents] I am not aware of that, however till now, I have not met your parents, telling them “your son did this [participated in Uyghur advocacy] or that, I have not done such a thing. If I had I would’ve already contacted you back either in 2023, or 2024. Also, I am not hoping for you to do something for me.
Mirkamil: Then, what is your hope?
Officer: My only hope is, first, I wanted to relay to you that your family wants to see you, because I am also a human, I also have a family, see your dad’s situation, to tell you the truth, I felt quite bad.
Mirkamil: Like I said before, to sum things up, your intention is to make me feel guilty, is that right?
Officer: No, no… I am not trying to make you feel guilty, you misunderstand me. After I finish my conversation with you I am going to call your parents to let them know and reassure them that you are living a happy and healthy life. Telling them not to worry, that’s it. So during our conversation there was something that wasn’t adding up in my mind, “such an outstanding son, how did he end up like this?” I just wanted to say what was on my mind that didn’t make sense to me. Don’t ever see me like your enemy, don’t misunderstand me. Don’t think of me as a government official. Just think of me as an ordinary guy that you know from before, someone who admires you for your music. I am not a fan, not to that level, during that time you would play music, we would admire the modern music you played back then.
Mirkamil: So that’s all I have to say, just tell my parents, like I said before, they should forget about me, there is no other solution.
Officer: So there is no going back?
Mirkamil: I didn’t start this, everything came from your end.
Officer: For example, what sort of things are you talking about?
Mirkamil: All these troubles, the slander against me, the relentless pressures.
Officer: Well, as far as I know, so what slander, what pressure are you talking about? You said before that you were accused of things that you had not done.
Mirkamil: There’s so much, you seem to know my elder sister, you can talk to her about it.
Officer: I am not in a position where I am meeting and talking with your sister.
Mirkamil: I am far away, so you can talk to me, but you can’t talk to someone who is living in the same city as you?
Officer: I am not going to call her for this small situation.
Mirkamil: Oh if it’s such a small situation then you shouldn’t be so concerned.
Officer: I don’t find it necessary to contact her about what her younger brother used to do. You said “pressure” . I am surprised, so I wanted to know, what sort of pressure is this? You said “slander”, what sort of slander are you talking about?
Mirkamil: So you can ask her about the slander. It’s not a small thing, whatever you asked me you can directly ask her, I just told you who you should ask.
Officer: So if you say that thing as slander, then let’s take care of the situation. I, as your friend if you choose to accept me.
Mirkamil: No, it can’t be resolved.
Officer: There’s nothing that cannot be resolved in this world.
Mirkamil: There’s a lot that cannot be resolved.
Officer: Then let me solve it, no problem. I am your guy. I’ll solve it. Whatever the situation is. How can we act like this if we don’t try, this is wrong. We can solve those things together, if there’s something I can do on my end, no problem, I can take care of those things.
Mirkamil: Let me make something clear to you. I am someone who has no contact with friends, relatives, or my parents. It doesn’t make sense to me that I am in contact with someone I do not know. Even though you have not told me plainly, I understand your actual intention. No matter how you speak to me, your words are nice and sweet but it will not work on me. Like you said, I am at a certain age now. If I was younger, maybe I would be more open to your suggestions, but now I will not fall into your pocket [coerced by you]. Before I would mind my own business, living away from Uyghurs and I still got slandered, you [the government] pushed me to this path. There is no other way.
Officer: Hey, can I ask you something? Like you said before, these slanders against you, if we got rid of all these pressures, and you returned [to China], see your parents, do you have such a plan?
Mirkamil: No, I don’t even want to go back.
Officer: This is where your umbilical cord was cut [your birth place].
Mirkamil: You’re right, you said yourself, this is not realistic, if I go there now, I won’t feel like it is my motherland.
Officer: Oh, it’s that bad? So, love has really gone away. What I think is, we should forget about the past, turn a new page, start anew, I thought that’s what could happen. Hello?
Mirkamil: Yes, I am listening.
Officer: So that’s what I was thinking. If we could come together, what’s happened in the past is in the past. So you should turn a new page, since the pen is in your own hand, write something new on a new white page.
Mirkamil: Yes, I can write it myself.
Officer: Yes, you will write it yourself.
Mirkamil: I am writing. Thank you for being concerned about me. Whatever has happened to me I can take care of it myself. This is the very first time I am talking to you, I have so many good friends, they are not at all concerned like you. This is not realistic. Giving someone advice without living in their skin. I think our conversation should end here, I have got other things to do. If you need to relay any information just relay what I told you before.
Officer: Ok.
Mirkamil: No words will work on me. Don’t be hopeful.
Officer: Ok, in that case, can we stay in touch?
Mirkamil: If I get a chance, I will be in touch.
Officer: Ok. I will not raise this issue again. I will talk about your parents again. I was able to meet you through these circumstances. I am hoping to stay in touch.
Mirkamil: If I am free then I can talk otherwise….
Officer: That’s fine. I will leave a voice message from time to time, and if you’re available you can reply and if you can’t that’s fine too, I will understand as you are busy. No problem. Hello?
Mirkamil: No, I’m listening to you.
Officer: Ok then. Let’s stay in touch, stay in touch through the holidays. Is that ok?
Mirkamil: Ok.
Officer: Stay healthy.
Mirkamil: Thank you, bye.
END OF AUDIO SCRIPT
Over the past couple of years Chinese police officers of Uyghur descent have been contacting Uyghurs abroad mainly through WeChat (Chinese version of WhatsApp) and coercing them to stop their advocacy efforts and make them divulge information about other Uyghurs living around them, especially those directly or indirectly involved in some sort of Uyghur advocacy. This is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to China’s transnational repression efforts. The tactics used are the same in every interview Kashgar Times has collected from Uyghurs across the world.
Mirkamil Turghun, 42, an Uyghur artist who resides in Paris recorded a 23 minute conversation with a Uyghur officer who works for the Chinese regime’s security apparatus in East Turkistan. He was brave enough to provide this recording to Kashgar Times to showcase what everyday Uyghurs living abroad go through. Kashgar Times has interviewed many Uyghurs who are in this situation and the conversations are pretty much the same and go through the following steps:
First the officers try to:
1. Befriend them
2. Guilt trip them.
3. Belittle Uyghur advocacy efforts.
4. Try to be the good guy and offer Uyghurs abroad something like a visit to East Turkistan without repercussions to see loved ones, money or safety for their loved ones.
All this in an effort to stop Uyghur advocacy and take down the number of Uyghurs activists and to whitewash any Uyghur genocide messaging.
Mirkamil says he expected the call. Years earlier, he had cut off all contact with his family to shield them from pressure by the authorities. He wanted no intermediaries, no indirect threats.
Mirkamil told Kashgar Times:
“I was expecting this call. I cut off all contact with my family so they wouldn’t be pressured by the authorities because of me. I was fed up with hearing them parrot propaganda. I wanted to deal with the cops directly. My ‘friend’s’ tactic was textbook. Flattery, guilt tripping, minimizing diaspora activism, and then pretending to be a savior by offering to take me off the blacklist. They have all my data, but don’t know me at all. Half of what he said was lies, the other half exaggeration to fit their shitty political narrative, by some intern playing Stasi or KGB. You’d have to be naive or an idiot to believe a word of it.”
What stands out in these interactions is not only the pressure itself, but the expectation of compliance. Chinese authorities appear to assume that emotional leverage, combined with selective incentives, will fracture solidarity and silence dissent. Sometimes it does. Many Uyghurs live with constant fear for their families and make impossible choices under that weight.
But Mirkamil refused to play along.
By releasing this recording, he is documenting a reality that many Uyghurs experience in isolation, often unsure whether to speak about it at all. His recording offers rare, direct insight into how transnational repression operates at the individual level, one call at a time.
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